ban for transfer money? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

o m g pizowned · Jan 13, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33

its easier to get your money on your main account

...

Phaern Majes · Jan 13, 2008, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

Or, you know, ANet could just not be a redengine for something so trivial.

Agreed but alas I can't do redengine about it

Aum · Jan 13, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

is it an exploit if you have 2 computers, have your 2 accounts in the same party, go out in a safe area, and drop items and pickup between the 2 accounts?

arcanemacabre · Jan 13, 2008, 09:16 AM // 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aum

is it an exploit if you have 2 computers, have your 2 accounts in the same party, go out in a safe area, and drop items and pickup between the 2 accounts?

Exploit? How the heck would that be an exploit?

Anyway, I've done multiple money and item trades between my account, my wife's account, and our alternate mule account. Some have been upwards in the 50-100k range at times, ectos and other rare materials, and countless mods and golds. Never had an issue.

I'm thinking that maybe it raises a red flag, and action is only taken if it looks like a one-time trade of a large sum (one-time could mean several trades in a short period of time). Using an alt account, or going between the same friends over a long period of time (like several weeks or months) would probably dismiss it. Just a guess, though.

prism2525 · Jan 13, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

i dunno but would trading 99k at a time between your accounts sort of clear it? If flags spring up for 100k+ trades, just don't trade 100k to yourself

Queenie · Jan 13, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Maybe transfer the gold in 20k-50k lumps? Take longer but I don't think it'd cause any suspicion.

Shakti · Jan 13, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I dunno...I've transfered gold/items back and forth with my main and my alt for 2+ years, never a problem. I give my hubby to be and guildies gold/items all the time. 1 sided trades, a few of which have been 100k when I'm buying someone a new set of 15k or something. I do that alot, I'm the "richie" in the guild and my philosophy is what the hell else am I gonna do with it? Buy my friends pretties, s'fun

We also swap stuff around, ie I stack this consumable, he stacks that collectable. I stack dyes so he gives me all his dyes other than black lol, and when any of them wanna dye somthing, I give em a bunch to decide on color, then however many they need for the mix, they call it my "Dye Bank". We move things between our accts, we both have 2. Never had a problem at all.

Malice Black · Jan 13, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I've transfered millions at a time, my accounts are still active.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aum

is it an exploit if you have 2 computers, have your 2 accounts in the same party, go out in a safe area, and drop items and pickup between the 2 accounts?

Never tried this, but I've used 2 computers to transfer funds/items many times.

Divinus Stella · Jan 13, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Well i think alarm bells on trigger when the trade is 1-way, id imagine they have some sort of script that picks up on trades of 100k gold for free.

If you put something in the trade window it should help, doesnt have to be worth the money but thats subjective so they cant ban you for paying 100k for an id kit.

VitisVinifera · Jan 13, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

it really sucks that this is the state we are in. People have been banned for completely honestly transferring money between accounts. We don't know what an exploit is, what is bannable, and what's legit. This fuzzy line changes daily and there's no consistency, and Gaile only confuses the issue when she tries to 'explain' things.

R.Shayne · Jan 13, 2008, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

it really sucks that this is the state we are in. People have been banned for completely honestly transferring money between accounts. We don't know what an exploit is, what is bannable, and what's legit. This fuzzy line changes daily and there's no consistency, and Gaile only confuses the issue when she tries to 'explain' things.

I so agree with you on the state of the game. My wife and I play together and I store dyes and material in my account. I am constantly worried that an account will get banned.

yesitsrob · Jan 13, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39

I know of cases where people have been banned for such (at horrendous times), though I personally think its Anet being complete dipshits.

Longasc · Jan 13, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46

It is not illegal.

If a ban happens - I guess gold trading is the reason of the ban.

Sometimes they might ban someone who is innocent, but I fear most of the time they are right on spot.

yesitsrob · Jan 13, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47

I've actually only heard of innocent people being banned for it and not actual offenders.

Martin Alvito · Jan 13, 2008, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

it really sucks that this is the state we are in. People have been banned for completely honestly transferring money between accounts. We don't know what an exploit is, what is bannable, and what's legit. This fuzzy line changes daily and there's no consistency, and Gaile only confuses the issue when she tries to 'explain' things.

Uncertainty is bad. Further, uncertainty is precisely what the automated banning system creates. A bannable offense is what the computer algorithms say it is, and the algorithms have to remain secret in order to function. Hence, uncertainty is introduced.

ANet clearly lacks a working definition of "exploit", which is why Gaile can't explain the concept to the player base. What changes something from a profitable endeavor into an exploit? The current standard seems to be something close to "when players repeatedly utilize 'features' of the game the designers did not intend for personal gain." This is a flawed standard.

Essentially, this requires players to read the minds of the designers. Gaile refers to this as "use common sense", which is problematic since definitions of common sense vary. Worse, computer algorithms don't use common sense, so players get perma-banned for no reason for things like transfers between accounts (where algorithm is designed to ban purchasers of gold).

I think we can all agree that the following are exploits:
- item duplication
- use of packet senders/packet sniffers
- rewriting client code

However, the definition of what is and is not exploitative farming is unclear. In the most recent case, players were utilizing a 'secret' outpost via guild hall ferry to shorten farming times. I personally heard about the mechanism about a month ago, and I've never set foot in Domain of Anguish. The implication of this is that the exploit has been fairly widely known for some time, as I don't play that much or keep up with PvE news these days.

While I admit that this sounded sketchy to me, I have to ask: how different is this exploit from the Duncan exploit when GW:EN was released? The only difference is the presence of someplace you're 'not supposed to be able to go', really. No one gets banned for exploiting Duncan; people get banned for exploiting this. Reliance on "common sense" to distinguish the two cases seems a flawed standard to me. If a player was unaware that the game was hacked in some way in order to open the outpost, the two cases are pretty much indistinguishable.

The development team owes it to the community to come up with some sort of clear guideline as to what is and isn't an exploit, and then to act so as to implement that guideline. People should know what will and will not result in a ban; people shouldn't get banned for transferring funds between multiple accounts. A feature to 'link' accounts given the e-mail addresses and passwords for accounts would solve the gold transfer problem quite neatly, by the way.

EDIT: I missed the screenie of the 20ish Titan Gemstones assigned to one player the first time through the big thread. That's a red flag. If an outcome can't be attained by normal play, that's cheating. If that's actually what the ban stick was used for - good riddance.

Miss Persephone · Jan 13, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

I've transferred money and items between my 2 accounts, and my boyfriends 2 accounts, often one-way trades. I frequently do one-way trades with friends and/or guildies. I personally prefer to trade on my second account so I don't get bothered by randoms while trying to actually play, which has happened numerous times when I've given out my primary IGN.

I don't see how it could be considered a bannable offence, considering we own all accounts involved. However some clearer guidance on the issue from an official source would be welcome.

svartdauden · Jan 14, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

i took over my bf's old account because he stopped playing. i play both accounts almost equally however i have traded between them on a nearly daily basis....

toons in presearing=basically a xunlai for my LDoA...
and well we all know we need more storage in the chests....
money transfers and materials when buying elite armors etc....

both accounts operate from the same IP
both accounts have almost the same theme of names

havent ever had a problem for it
and heck both accounts are actually in different guilds

i dont plan to stop, doing it.
if they didnt think to perhaps let us buy xtra pages for the chest like we now can for slots for new toons then really they have to know those who play a lot are going to do things like this.

besides 2 accounts can be quite fun as well, not just for storage. there is the being in 2 guilds, say you dont like your un/lucky title track for whatever reason... you have another account that doesnt have it.

sad that they would take the time to look at such things without taking things into consideration of the fact MANY people have more than one account.

moneymiek604 · Mar 23, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45

My account is banned for 72 hours for purchasing money online. I didn't think this was against the rules, but i take responsibility, and accept the suspension. They said they would take away all of my money, but are they going to take away my items i purchased too?

hippo942 · Mar 23, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50

I wouldn't think they would ban you as I have transfered cash for my friend from his 2 accounts loads of times and nothing happened. But I sure if they do ban you they would unban you aslong as you didnt ebay it :P

Proff · Mar 23, 2008, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I've actually only heard of innocent people being banned for it and not actual offenders.

Cause offenders don't go on guru and make a post asking "Hey why was my account banned????"....

Jan 13, 2008, 08:33 AM // 08:33	#21
o m g pizowned Site Contributor Join Date: Aug 2006	its easier to get your money on your main account ... __________________ Chaos Kurupter is a nubcake

Jan 13, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39	#23
Aum Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2007	is it an exploit if you have 2 computers, have your 2 accounts in the same party, go out in a safe area, and drop items and pickup between the 2 accounts?

Jan 13, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03	#25
prism2525 Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Among dead bodies. Guild: The Republic of Sky Pirates Profession: E/	i dunno but would trading 99k at a time between your accounts sort of clear it? If flags spring up for 100k+ trades, just don't trade 100k to yourself

Jan 13, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50	#26
Queenie Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2005	Maybe transfer the gold in 20k-50k lumps? Take longer but I don't think it'd cause any suspicion.

Jan 13, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47	#27
Shakti Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Home... Guild: Vier Reiter [Vier]	I dunno...I've transfered gold/items back and forth with my main and my alt for 2+ years, never a problem. I give my hubby to be and guildies gold/items all the time. 1 sided trades, a few of which have been 100k when I'm buying someone a new set of 15k or something. I do that alot, I'm the "richie" in the guild and my philosophy is what the hell else am I gonna do with it? Buy my friends pretties, s'fun We also swap stuff around, ie I stack this consumable, he stacks that collectable. I stack dyes so he gives me all his dyes other than black lol, and when any of them wanna dye somthing, I give em a bunch to decide on color, then however many they need for the mix, they call it my "Dye Bank". We move things between our accts, we both have 2. Never had a problem at all.

Jan 13, 2008, 07:44 PM // 19:44	#29
Divinus Stella Desert Nomad Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Wales Guild: Steel Phoenix	Well i think alarm bells on trigger when the trade is 1-way, id imagine they have some sort of script that picks up on trades of 100k gold for free. If you put something in the trade window it should help, doesnt have to be worth the money but thats subjective so they cant ban you for paying 100k for an id kit.

Jan 13, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57	#30
VitisVinifera Banned Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Northern California Guild: HoTR Profession: N/Me	it really sucks that this is the state we are in. People have been banned for completely honestly transferring money between accounts. We don't know what an exploit is, what is bannable, and what's legit. This fuzzy line changes daily and there's no consistency, and Gaile only confuses the issue when she tries to 'explain' things.

Jan 13, 2008, 08:39 PM // 20:39	#32
yesitsrob Elite Guru Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Manchester, England Guild: SMS/Victrix	I know of cases where people have been banned for such (at horrendous times), though I personally think its Anet being complete dipshits.

Jan 13, 2008, 08:46 PM // 20:46	#33
Longasc Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005	It is not illegal. If a ban happens - I guess gold trading is the reason of the ban. Sometimes they might ban someone who is innocent, but I fear most of the time they are right on spot.

Jan 13, 2008, 08:47 PM // 20:47	#34
yesitsrob Elite Guru Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Manchester, England Guild: SMS/Victrix	I've actually only heard of innocent people being banned for it and not actual offenders.

Jan 13, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23	#36
Miss Persephone Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2005	I've transferred money and items between my 2 accounts, and my boyfriends 2 accounts, often one-way trades. I frequently do one-way trades with friends and/or guildies. I personally prefer to trade on my second account so I don't get bothered by randoms while trying to actually play, which has happened numerous times when I've given out my primary IGN. I don't see how it could be considered a bannable offence, considering we own all accounts involved. However some clearer guidance on the issue from an official source would be welcome.

Jan 14, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11	#37
svartdauden Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: lynnwood, washington Guild: [THPK] & [PaL] Profession: N/	i took over my bf's old account because he stopped playing. i play both accounts almost equally however i have traded between them on a nearly daily basis.... toons in presearing=basically a xunlai for my LDoA... and well we all know we need more storage in the chests.... money transfers and materials when buying elite armors etc.... both accounts operate from the same IP both accounts have almost the same theme of names havent ever had a problem for it and heck both accounts are actually in different guilds i dont plan to stop, doing it. if they didnt think to perhaps let us buy xtra pages for the chest like we now can for slots for new toons then really they have to know those who play a lot are going to do things like this. besides 2 accounts can be quite fun as well, not just for storage. there is the being in 2 guilds, say you dont like your un/lucky title track for whatever reason... you have another account that doesnt have it. sad that they would take the time to look at such things without taking things into consideration of the fact MANY people have more than one account.

Mar 23, 2008, 07:45 PM // 19:45	#38
moneymiek604 Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Mar 2008 Guild: Masters of Za Universe Profession: W/R	My account is banned for 72 hours for purchasing money online. I didn't think this was against the rules, but i take responsibility, and accept the suspension. They said they would take away all of my money, but are they going to take away my items i purchased too?

Mar 23, 2008, 07:50 PM // 19:50	#39
hippo942 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: England Guild: Yes I do have a guild, Thanks for asking Profession: N/	I wouldn't think they would ban you as I have transfered cash for my friend from his 2 accounts loads of times and nothing happened. But I sure if they do ban you they would unban you aslong as you didnt ebay it :P